# The Brutal $1.2B Unicorn Reality NEW ECONOMIES · 2026-02-22 Kirill Bigai, founder of Preply, argues that the company's $1.2 billion unicorn valuation is a discipline story, not a success story, built on lean operations and unit economics. He recounts launching with a concierge MVP—a single landing page and manual tutor matching on Skype—while living with five co-founders in one house without salaries. To scale, Preply focused on SEO and SEM to acquire both learners and tutors, achieving ROI-positive results. During the war in Ukraine, the company took responsibility for evacuating 150 employees from Kyiv, fostering unity and resilience. Bigai envisions a 'human-first, AI-enabled' future where AI acts as a co-pilot for tutors, automating homework and improving learner-tutor matching. ## Questions this episode answers ### How did Kirill Bigai describe Preply's $1.2 billion valuation as a discipline story rather than a success story? Kirill Bigai explained that Preply’s discipline story means always acquiring customers with the right unit economics, staying on the edge of breakeven even after raising capital, and investing only in expansion before quickly returning to lean operations. This focus on profitability and lean team building, rooted in the company’s DNA from the early days without salaries, helped them reach unicorn status. [19:07](https://neweconomies.podhood.com/bb33e2b0-1037-4ef4-b9a6-ae019b7471bd?t=1147000) ### How does Preply use AI to enhance human tutoring without replacing teachers? Kirill Bigai stated that Preply uses AI as a “co-pilot” for tutors, not a replacement. AI analyzes class content to identify strengths and weaknesses, then generates bite-sized, engaging homework for learners to practice between sessions. Additionally, AI automates non-teaching tasks for tutors and leverages video class data to match learners with the best-suited tutors, improving the learning experience. [27:05](https://neweconomies.podhood.com/bb33e2b0-1037-4ef4-b9a6-ae019b7471bd?t=1625000) ### What was Preply's 'concierge MVP' in the early days? Kirill Bigai described Preply’s concierge MVP as a single webpage with a call to action where users could leave their contact info to find a tutor. Kirill would then manually call these potential learners to understand their needs and search for tutors on classifieds. Everything was manual, including using Google Forms for tutor registration, until they gradually automated the process and built the marketplace. [11:55](https://neweconomies.podhood.com/bb33e2b0-1037-4ef4-b9a6-ae019b7471bd?t=715000) ### How did Preply support its Ukrainian team during the Russian invasion in 2022? Kirill Bigai said Preply took direct responsibility, creating a 24/7 team to contact every employee and find transportation out of Kyiv amidst fuel shortages and non-functional trains. They booked buses, rented hotels and apartments, and provided financial, legal, and mental support. This approach, though morally heavy, fostered unity, resilience, and made the company stronger during the crisis. [38:16](https://neweconomies.podhood.com/bb33e2b0-1037-4ef4-b9a6-ae019b7471bd?t=2296000) ## Key moments - **[0:00] Teaser** - [0:00] Kirill Bigai calls Preply's $1.2B unicorn status a 'discipline story' built on lean operations and unit economics - [1:00] Ukraine-based Preply employees continued working from underground shelters during rocket attacks, says CEO Kirill Bigai - **[1:35] Origin** - [1:55] Kirill Bigai's early ambition was to become an entrepreneur and build a global business after seeing his family's companies in Ukraine - [3:09] Kirill Bigai's idea for Preply came from his own experience taking Skype-based language tutoring sessions before Zoom existed - [5:33] Kirill Bigai says learning a new language opens a universe and shapes the way you think, citing differences between English and Ukrainian - **[7:57] Early Grind** - [11:55] Preply's first MVP was a concierge service where Kirill Bigai personally called users to manually match them with tutors - [14:34] Kirill Bigai taught himself SEO to make it Preply's primary acquisition channel, citing it as the cheapest option - **[18:46] Discipline** - [19:07] Q: What does Kirill Bigai mean by Preply being a 'discipline story'? A: Acquiring customers with right unit economics to always stay near breakeven - [20:09] "We had no salaries for a significant period of time," recalls Kirill Bigai on Preply's lean early days - **[21:02] Edtech** - [21:22] Kirill Bigai believes edtech's scarcity of unicorns is due to not attracting the best founders, not the sector's difficulty - **[23:13] Learner First** - [24:32] "I love teaching the world from my living room" — Kirill Bigai shares a Preply tutor's description of the platform - [25:13] A third-party study found Preply can deliver up to 3x faster language progress than traditional methods, says Kirill Bigai - **[26:13] AI & Community** - [28:22] Preply is building an AI tutoring co-pilot that analyzes video classes to generate personalized homework and predict student progress - [29:46] Preply uses AI to match learners and tutors by analyzing video class data, a unique advantage over other marketplaces - **[33:02] Fluency** - [34:05] Kirill Bigai recommends 3 hours of tutoring per week for fast language progress, plus AI-generated homework between sessions - **[35:28] Balance** - **[37:51] Ukraine** - [39:27] During the Ukraine war, Preply employees worked from underground shelters while rockets approached, showing extreme resilience, says CEO Kirill Bigai - **[44:23] Advice** - [45:20] Kirill Bigai's biggest advice to founders: hire executives who match the culture of ambition, boldness, and collaboration to reach the next growth stage - **[46:51] Outro** - [46:58] Kirill Bigai says becoming a unicorn was never the end goal; Preply aims to be a legendary learning brand that shapes how people learn ## Speakers - **Olek** (host) - **Kirill Bigai** (guest) ## Topics Marketplaces ## Mentioned Preply (company), Skype (product) ## Transcript ### Teaser **Olek** [0:00] You guys just raised $150 million, became a unicorn, but it's super hard,right? This is not a success story, this is a discipline story. **Kirill Bigai** [0:08] Yes. It's a journey that you have to commit to. From the very beginning, we tried to be extremely lean, and I think it just became a part of our DNA. We had no salaries for a significant period of time. Five of us ended up living in the same house, and even though we were raising capital very quickly, we were focusing on being lean again. But there were also a lot of learnings from that, and I think the key learnings was that— Kirill Bigai is the pioneer of one of ed-tech's rare unicorns. And now he's revealing how discipline helped him build a $1.2 billion company. And the key learnings to his success. **Kirill Bigai** [0:43] It's important to have theright team. When it comes to our team, they have been extremely, extremely committed to our mission. When the war started to unpack in Ukraine, it was a real risk. We had 150 people in Kyiv, and the bombing is constant. Often you would have a call with a Ukrainian teammate, and they just tell you they have to go underground because there isn't coming rocket. So they go underground, and they continue to work from underground. It's quite incredible, and if anything, it made Preply so much stronger. There were few things that we learned from. During that time, it was an incredible feeling of unity when all the international employees were gathered together to basically support everything that we were doing to help Ukrainians, but also to keep running the business. And I think the key lessons was. **Olek** [1:35] Kirill, welcome to the show. It's great to see you. ### Origin **Kirill Bigai** [1:38] Hey, Olek. Very good to be here, and thank you for inviting. **Olek** [1:42] No worries. Well, you just reached unicorn status. Massive congrats. Why did you decide to go down this crazy, rocky, unbelievable journey of starting your own company? **Kirill Bigai** [1:55] To be honest, I think it's happened because there was some desire from early age that I want to be an entrepreneur. I grew up in a family of engineers who became entrepreneurs when Ukraine became independent in the '90s. And, you know, I was growing up seeing how the companies are kind of, you know, created from zero. And somehow I, you know, always thought that I'm going to be an entrepreneur. So when I was in university, I understood the few things: that I definitely want to be an entrepreneur, and I definitely want to build a global business. And that's when I actually started improving my language skills. And I spent a lot, a lot of time improving my English. Even though I had classes in school, in university, it was not even close to being enough to communicate in the business world. And, yeah, at some point we started building startup with a co-founder that I met, Dmytro, and we ended up being in the US. And that's where I truly understood how not enough my English is at that point. So, yeah, I decided to improve my language skill even further, and I found a tutor at that time, and she was doing online classes. It was before Zoom, before Hangout. At that time, Skype was the main video platform. **Olek** [3:16] Wow, Skype. That is impressive. **Kirill Bigai** [3:18] Yes, yes. And we had Skype classes, and I really enjoyed them. I think it provided a lot of flexibility, but also what we saw with my co-founder at that time, that it provides you a very unique access to potentially the best tutors in the world, if only there was a marketplace for that. So that's, you know, what inspired us to build a global marketplace. **Olek** [3:39] That's amazing. You know, when I think about learning new languages, or my friends think about learning new languages, it's such an amazing tour. I think I read somewhere along the lines of, "One in four people today want to learn a new language." Do you think by learning a new language, is this more of a hobby, or do you think it really does set you apart from other people when you're applying for jobs? **Kirill Bigai** [4:00] I mean, the truth is that the majority of people in the world do not speak English, and English is a very international language that allows you to work for different businesses, but also be, you know, very international and travel. So I think, you know, English is probably one of the key drivers of language learning in the world. It's extremely important. And, I mean, for me personally, it definitely changed my life,right? Without English, I would not be here. And then that's what we see on Preply as well. We have a lot of customers who come into Preply as working professionals. They want to improve their language skills for work purposes. And for some, it's English. For others, it's other languages because they're relocated to a new country. And I think we also have, I mean, we're a marketplace, so we have all types of customers. We also have customers who want to improve their language skills, you know, to travel and feel like a local, to be able to connect with their partners. We have incredible stories. One of our early-stage investors from Point9 Capital, Paweł Khodzynski, his father decided to improve German on Preply because his grandkid was growing up in a German-speaking country, and he just wanted to speak to his grandkid in his language, which is a very interesting use case as well. So, yeah, I do think that, you know, languages open the doors and really help people to change their lives and understand the world in a different way. You know, every language, when you learn, you kind of open a new universe. You understand how people who speak this language think. You understand what, you know, the whole language construct impacts how we think, basically, which I found very fascinating. And, you know, if you speak English, you think in one way. If you speak Ukrainian, you think in a slightly different way. And, you know, I think it applies to all languages in the world. **Olek** [5:59] Exactlyright. And even just, like you said, interacting with locals. Before we came on the show, I said, you know, living out here in Thailand, I'm trying to learn Thai now on Preply, obviously. But it's super hard,right? But as soon as you do, you can automatically interact with the locals. There's something special about that. But part of me also thinks when you start to learn a new language, you've got to really commit to it. I imagine there's a high percentage of people who start to learn a new language and then maybe a month in they quit. Are there some stats you've seen on Preply that's accurate, or is there something else missing? **Kirill Bigai** [6:32] Yes. What we see on Preply is a bit biased towards customers that we attract because we focus on people who we call serious learners. They come to Preply when they really want to make progress. Before that, they could have used different self-learning tools, you know, and just try and explore the language. But when they really want to progress and start speaking, they come to Preply. And I think what we see is that, you know, the customers stay very, very long on Preply. And we're actually very proud because the majority of our customers, or let's say on average, our customers would gain more than one level in their language skill, which is phenomenal because, you know, you know that average numbers is tricky. What we also see is that, yes, it's a journey that you have to commit to, and there are a lot of customers who would drop in the first couple of months. But we also have customers who stay with us for 10 and more years, which, again, is quite incredible. What I would also add is that what we've been able to observe is that the tutor that customers select is the best predictor of their engagement and retention. So this human connection is very, very important. And there are tutors who have, you know, much higher engagement and retention than others. **Olek** [7:57] Super interesting. We're going to come more onto that because the future of education, especially with AI, is obviously a hot topicright now. But let's go back to the very founding beginnings. You are coming to the US. This is back in 2012. ### Early Grind **Olek** [8:12] You arrive in Boston. Take us back to those early days, and what is your mission to go and build and change the universe? **Kirill Bigai** [8:21] Yes. 2012. So to give you a bit of background, I think the Preply version as we know today was launched in the second quarter of 2013. So basically, the whole 2012 was a year of exploration and pivots. And there were a few stages. So one stage, we tried to build a product, but what we saw is that, you know, we had missing skills in the team, and we actually have changed the team. And then with that new team, we went to Boston. And we started building marketplace for, you know, SAT and ACT preparation. It was focused on tutoring. And we actually built a very nice product. There were a few features that I don't think were necessary, but there were also a lot of learnings from that. And I think the key learnings was that it's important to have theright team. We quickly realized that we don't have all necessary skills to be able to iterate quickly on the product. So we actually shaped the team, and the team became a bit different. And then we went to Boston to launch marketplace for tutoring, specifically for SAT and ACT, which at that moment, what we knew is that it's a massive market. And I already told you that, you know, our kind of trip to the US was, I think, very insightful. You know, it was my first time in the US. It was my first time in English, you know, in a native English-speaking country. And as I mentioned, I still kind of, it was still challenging for me to connect with people, you know, day to day in the business environment because of the language barrier. So I actually, you know, started improving my language with a line tutor. But at the same time, we were launching this marketplace, and I think we built a good product. What we realized is that, you know, there are a few things that have to be true. You have to have good product market fit, and then you have to have good product channel fit. So that's what we focused. We launched the product, and we started looking for the channel to start scaling our marketplace. And we tried many different channels. What we realized in then that maybe there was not exact product market fit, so we had to pivot. And we also realized that there are a few channels that works for us. So coming back to Ukraine after, you know, after the US, we decided to come back mainly to stay lean and be able to continue building startup. There was no capital left at that time. And we stayed focused on trying to understand what should we build and how should we build it. And I think, again, looking to 2012, it was very important here because we understood that it's, you should start with theright team. You also should start from the market you understand. So if you can call it founder market fit, that would be, I think, how we would think about it. And then the product market fit and product channel fit are important. So all these four things, we started implementing in 2013. So we decided to focus on the market that we understand the best. It's a language learning. We had theright team at that point of time. And to make sure that we have theright product fit andright product channel fit, we actually started with a very, very simple MVP. Our first MVP at that time was just a single page with call to action. We will help you to find a tutor. Just leave your contact information. And when we had phone numbers of people, I would just call them and ask them, you know, what they're looking for and would really try to understand the problem they're trying to solve. And after that, I would go online and would try to find a tutor on different classifiers that were available at that time. Everything was manual. I think this time, kind of, yeah, I think nowadays it's called Concierge MVP. It has a fancy name. At that time, we didn't know the term, but that's basically what we did. And very quickly, we actually started, you know, understanding the market much better. We started improving the product. We created a registration page based on a Google form for tutors so they can leave their information after I contacted them, and we can present those tutors to new potential customers. We created then tutor profile pages. We created a search page where we would show you different tutors that we already have in our database. And at some point, we started automating all these processes. So in a few months, we launched payment systems as well, and customers start paying for first class with a tutor on Preply. **Olek** [13:12] That's incredible. I mean, a lot of founders would actually give up during that process, especially because it's so manual-based and you're building a two-sided marketplace. You're having to go and find all the students, the learners, and also the teachers. How did you actually just go around, you know, getting your first thousand, ten thousand users when back then, really, actually, the internet was still pretty new and marketplaces were still pretty new as well? **Kirill Bigai** [13:36] When we were launching this first page, we decided to test it together with the marketing channel. What we found, again, you know, when we were in Boston, we found that for us, SEM and SEO at that time was basically search engines were the best channels. So when we launched our first page, we started running ads campaigns to attract customers in a paid way. And initially, it was ROI negative, but very quickly, we made it ROI positive. And that's how we found, you know, a potential acquisition channel for learners. On the tutor side, we first contacted them manually, finding on different classifieds, but then also quickly realized that we can acquire them through the same search channels because they're also looking for, you know, opportunity to teach customers online. And after that, we, I think, made another important decision to focus on organic search results. So basically, SEO, because it was the cheapest channel for us. And we became really, really good in SEO. So I learned it from scratch, and I was kind of leading marketing and product. And my co-founder was a brilliant engineer, and we also had a designer on the team. And, you know, we were able to iterate on the product very quickly, but also we were able to, we were able to attract customers. And we just, you know, kept increasing our marketplace step by step and improving the experience for them. **Olek** [15:15] I think one of the most special moments is those, you know, truly like early first years. If I was joining Preply back in 2012, I'm an intern. Take me back through those, you know, first few years. What is happening on a day-to-day basis? Is it complete chaos? Is it super scrappy? Is it a lot of fun? Take me back to those first few years. **Kirill Bigai** [15:35] Yeah, it's been extremely scrappy. And it was also, I think, very interesting and challenging because you kind of, you know, you don't know where to go. You kind of, you need to find your way. There is no way to go. You know, so you need kind of, you know, to see it through and you need to be extremely agile and flexible. And you had to take your opportunities. So every time when you saw the opportunity, you tried to grab it and explore it, either it was, you know, and, you know, before that, we didn't have any experience in venture,right? So, you know, we had to build from scratch our contact, basically list, or kind of network of potential investors, of potential employees, you know, people who we can learn from, like advisors, etc. And yeah, I think we stayed extremely open to learn new things. I think we read a lot about the startups at that time. There was a lot of stories about the growth of Airbnb, the growth of Facebook. And we tried to apply some of the growth hacks that we read about. So yeah, I think if I would need to summarize it, we were extremely agile, extremely scrappy, and try all different types of growth hacks to make sure that we find the product market fit and theright channels. And also stayed very close to customers, to both tutors and learners. **Olek** [17:01] I think it's super important. And especially when founders move to a new country, they don't know anyone. English is not their first language. They basically have to do everything until they almost want to quit,right? But they can't quit. For the audience listening, I know be quite a few founders who may be in similar situations. They just moved to a new country. They don't speak the native language. Take us back to when you moved to the US. Were you literally just going to all the founder events? Were you just trying to connect with as many founders as you can to almost find, like, you know, your home turf? **Kirill Bigai** [17:37] We did. So we found a co-working space where we had a lot of startups around us. There was also a lot, you know, a few advisors in Boston. That's actually why we ended up there. And we tried to connect with them and learn from them. They each had businesses before, and they became investors as well. But we also spent a lot of time together, just, you know, trying to crack, you know, the product. And it was fun because, you know, it was a few of us. You know, I, my co-founder Dmitro, we had designer, lead engineer, and we had also, you know, a few people that are kind of early employees. So it was like six of us. And five of us ended up living in the same house because, you know, we had to stay lean. And it was like a classic, I guess, startup environment when we lived together and worked together in the same building. And then we started, you know, going to this startup co-working space. So yeah, it's, we tried to integrate ourselves as much as possible, but also spend a lot of time together. **Olek** [18:46] Amazing. Well, fast forward 15, 16 years. A few weeks ago, the news is out. You guys just raised your Series D, which is super awesome. $150 million became a unicorn. And what I find super humbling about the story which you put out was this is not a success story. ### Discipline **Olek** [19:04] This is a discipline story. What do you mean by that? **Kirill Bigai** [19:07] When you think about discipline story is that we always try to make sure that we acquire customers with theright unit economics, which, you know, always allowed us to focus on the best acquisition channels and building the product in a lean way and building the team in a lean way. And even though we were raising capitals, every time when we raised capital, we made sure that with this capital, we can reach profitability. So we always been, you know, on the edge of breakeven. And every time we invested just, you know, in expansion, but very quickly, we were focusing on being lean again. **Olek** [19:45] When founders raise, there are normally quite a few distractions. And it's super difficult to raise and run a company at the same time. Before this latest raise, what do you think were some of the crucial things that enabled you to really be disciplined and helped you raise the latest round in the last few years? **Kirill Bigai** [20:09] What helped me to build discipline, I think it's a part of company DNA, to be honest. You know, we, as I mentioned in the very beginning, it was a few of us. And then when we came back to Ukraine to start from scratch, it was only, you know, three people left. And we had no salaries for a significant period of time. So from the very beginning, we tried to be extremely lean. And I think it just became a part of our DNA. And to be, and I think I'm also grateful to people that we were able to attract. A lot of them actually taught me how to be even more, you know, disciplined and more, yeah, focused on building a lean team and driving the business in a lean way. So yeah, that's probably how I would describe it. It's like new people who joined were very good at that. And also, it was a part of company DNA. **Olek** [21:02] You know, when I see so many amazing edtech companies being built, especially from early-stage startups, it's so awesome to see. But actually, we don't see that many edtech companies which really get all the way to the end. It might be becoming a unicorn. ### Edtech **Olek** [21:15] It might be getting to 10, $100 million in revenue and so on. Why is edtech so hard to build? **Kirill Bigai** [21:22] I have a popular opinion here. I think that, yeah, maybe it's just not very popular to build edtech, and it does not attract the best founders. So I think that we need more people, more entrepreneurs coming to edtech because there is so much to build. And I think what we were always focused on, we kept us to, you know, the highest possible standards while building, you know, education, technology, business, and marketplace at the same time. And I think that's what helped us to, you know, continuously improve the product and scale the marketplace. So yeah, we never thought about ourselves as, you know, edtech category. We thought of ourselves actually as a marketplace. And, you know, companies that we aspire, you know, to run from were Uber, you know, Airbnb, Booking, DoorDash, etc. **Olek** [22:17] It's true. Like when you see the edtech companies like being built today, hopefully there are more startups being built, but there's still not that many,right? If you weren't building Preply today and you were to go and build another marketplace, what type of marketplace slash maybe edtech company do you think you would build? Because I feel there are so many opportunities now in this space. Curious to hear what you would go and build. **Kirill Bigai** [22:41] I mean, to be honest, it's a very difficult question because I really enjoy what I'm building today, and I would not like to trade it for anything else. We have such a phenomenal, you know, mission. Every time I wake up, I come to the office, I see people and kind of all the energy they bring to the company. I just feel extremely lucky that, you know, I happen to build what we are building today, and I happen to be in this startup. So yeah, extremely difficult question that I don't know how to answer, to be honest. ### Learner First **Olek** [23:13] Well, maybe let's flip the question a little bit. Building a marketplace is really difficult,right? And I can imagine when you've got the learners and you've got the teachers, keeping both sides really happy, especially at this scale, can be really difficult. What are some of the things you really look for that makes Preply super special and that magical experience that every learner and teacher can have on a daily basis? **Kirill Bigai** [23:36] Yes, I think one of our principles is we do it for learners. So together with our tutors community, we do it for learners. And we kind of try to align, you know, all the employees, but also, you know, independent tutors community that learners are extremely important, and that's why we exist. So we kind of try to create this alignment. At the same time, we're extremely grateful and extremely focused on building very good product for our tutors. And then it's not that difficult to make both sides happy because they make each other happy. I think, you know, all these human connections that we see on the platform, they're just incredible. You know, we have hundreds of thousands of tutorsright now from more than 180 countries. I remember one phrase of the tutor I interviewed. She said that she loves teaching the world from her living room. And that's how I would describe a lot of our tutors feel. You know, on Preply, they meet customers from all different countries. There's so much diversity, you know, in culture, in experience, in background. And they really enjoy to meet those people from many different countries. And same for learners. I think a lot of them would highlight that tutors, we recently ran an efficiency study to understand efficiency of Preply in general and compare it to classic traditional methods. What we saw that in some cases, we can deliver up to three times faster progress than traditional methods, which was incredible. And 95% of our customers, our learners said that the main driver of their success is the tutor that they met. So yeah, we have a lot of positive reviews. **Olek** [25:38] FreeX like better? That's awesome. **Kirill Bigai** [25:42] Yes, yes. It's very good. It's up to 3X, and it's not for everyone. But there are cases like this, and it's a statistically significant case because it was run by a third party. And I think what we're also very passionate about, well, first of all, it's not a massive surprise given that tutoring is the most efficient way to learn a language. I think there were many studies before that highlight that it's by far, by far the most efficient way to learn a language. **Olek** [26:13] Exactly,right? When you get to languages, especially, there are so many opportunities and the opportunities which you can do like beyond that. But let's talk about the impact of AI,right? Because when I think about tutoring, and like I mentioned earlier,right, learning ties. ### AI & Community **Olek** [26:28] I did have an in-person Thai teacher. I did it every Thursday for an hour and a half from 2:00 p.m. to 3:30. But by 3:30, you're totally exhausted. Whereas if you do it online, you can do it anywhere in the world,right? And more on your flexibility. And then when I hear some of my friends saying, "Oh, I just want to have an AI tutor who could be completely virtual, completely like non-existent, but I can still learn a language," it's just not the same. And one of your quotes,right, is around, "We're going to be human-first, AI-enabled." Where is this just whole category going with AI and tutors, do you think? **Kirill Bigai** [27:05] Yes. Well, I think that the way to think about AI is that it's a very strong knowledge base that you can interact with. At the same time, we had knowledge bases before. You know, it was in books. Now there are self-learning apps, and you can progress with it. But if you're talking about efficiency and fast progress, human tutoring would be by far the most efficient one. And what we have been able to see that, first of all, customers come to Preply because they look for this human connection and someone who will keep them motivated, keep them coming to the classes, keep them accountable, you know, to show up, to learn, and keep learning. This is an extremely important part of the journey. And it's a journey that will last many hundreds of hours, if not thousands, to really improve the language and be able to comfortably speak with it. So when it comes to AI, what we believe that it's a phenomenal tool that we are very excited about, and it really can help to make human tutoring even more efficient. And I think the way we see it is that, yes, there are going to be self-learning solutions. They're already there. They might be a bit better. But the human connection, this element of accountability and motivation, plus well-integrated AI that will analyze your classes, understand your strengths and weaknesses, understand what you should focus on next, and predict what type of exercise will be able to help you with the progress based on everything they know about you is actually very, very interesting integration. And that's exactly what we are building. So we are building, we like to say that we are building AI tutoring co-pilot and basically help tutors to create even more engaging, motivating experiences, but also allow customers to practice with AI between the classes, almost like automated homework. And an additional piece of AI that we work on is automating all the tasks that tutors have on their plate so they can focus on what they are best at teaching the world. And the last element that I would highlight, and it's connected to what I mentioned that, you know, the majority of customers on our platform, the vast majority, suggested that their tutor was the biggest driver of their success. We use AI to match learners and tutors. And it's actually quite incredible because before that, we were able to use marketplace data to match learners and tutors. And by marketplace data, I mean, you know, really performance of our tutors and everything we know about customers and what they were searching for. But today, we actually can also use the data from the video classes to connect learners and tutors in a much deeper way. And I think it's an extremely unique opportunity here, something that other marketplaces do not have. **Olek** [30:14] I think it's super important. It's super cool as well. But when I think about my teachers from school, for example, okay, this was a few years ago, but I actually spoke to a few of them recently, and they don't really know what's happening in this AI world. With your 100K teachers now on the platform, have you had to do a bit of education around actually teaching them what AI is all about and the impact it can have? **Kirill Bigai** [30:38] Yes, we provide, first of all, we work very closely with them when we are developing those tools. So we are trying to understand what kind of tools they need, what we can do to improve customers' experience as well. So there is a very close collaboration during the process of building something. And then when we launched, we, of course, you know, provide an overview of the features that we have. We have a tutors community, basically where they can interact with each other. So they also discuss those tools, and they help each other to understand those tools better. And the majority of our tutors are extremely excited about what AI can help them with. **Olek** [31:16] That's super cool that teachers can interact with each other. **Kirill Bigai** [31:20] Yes. **Olek** [31:21] Is this just like on a massive Slack channel, or is it a bit more formal than that? **Kirill Bigai** [31:26] I believe we have a platform, like a SaaS solution that we integrated into the Preply website. So it feels like Preply, but it's basically a SaaS behind. And yeah, you have different kind of forums there and different topics that you can focus on. You can vote things, you can like things. So yeah, it feels a little bit more like a social network that focused on, I don't know, specific topics. **Olek** [31:51] I love that. And also, like, I imagine, I'm not sure like how many of your teachers only, you know, focus on Preply as a form of income, but I imagine for them it's also a really good way to learn from each other and almost like create a Preply community around it,right, where they can meet each other, learn from each other, and just hopefully have a great time. **Kirill Bigai** [32:11] Yes, yes. We also have an annual tutor conference. This time, you know, I think we run it in October. It lasted three days, and we invited a lot of speakers, you know, leading kind of educators who help to share with them how they see different methodologies, etc. We created spaces for them to communicate live, you know, on different topics. And we also had a section when our product managers were presenting, you know, what they have built, you know, last year and what they're planning to build in the future. So there was also the ability to interact with people who are building Preply. And that actually was the most popular section for tutors. They really enjoyed it. It was the first time when our product managers, you know, presented this, and it was a big success, and we want to continue it. ### Fluency **Olek** [33:02] I love that. You know, when so many people go and start a new language, like we said earlier,right, you just got to have almost like that daily commitment. What do you think it takes to speak a second language fluently? Does it take a year, a year and a half, do you think, to just spend a couple of hours each day? Or do some of your teachers, you know, teach the students within, you know, six months or something? I'm trying to figure out how many hours do I need to put in a day to speak Thai fluently by the end of the year? **Kirill Bigai** [33:36] It depends on the level you start. If you start from absolute zero, yeah, I would say that, you know, to get to a basic conversation, you probably need to invest at least a year. Maybe six months. Maybe six months. **Olek** [33:49] We're getting there. **Kirill Bigai** [33:50] In the end, it's a number of hours,right? And I think, you know, to get success in the early stages, you probably need 50 to 100 hours to get like from A0 to A1, and then from A1 to A2, you need 100 to 200 hours. So yeah, it also depends on the intensity and frequency of classes. What I like to say is that, you know, three hours a week with a tutor, I think, is a good amount to help you to progress fast. And homework is actually quite important as well to have time for yourself when you're trying to understand what you've done in the class and prepare for the next class. And we are now trying to make it more engaging and automate with AI. We start with English language, and we basically generate on the basis of the class, on the basis of the content of the class between learner and tutor. As I mentioned, we analyze, you know, all the good things that you've done, things that you have to work on, and we now generate with AI very friendly, UX-friendly, bite-sized exercises like homework. You know, they can be focused on vocabulary or grammar. There are some speaking practices as well that you can do between the classes. It's now launched for English, and step by step, we'll scale to other subjects. **Olek** [35:05] There you go. So for the audience listening, if you don't have this Masogi Challenge, do you know, have you heard of this Masogi Challenge? **Kirill Bigai** [35:11] No, I haven't. Tell me. **Olek** [35:13] Okay. So a Masogi Challenge is basically a big personal goal that you have each year. It has to be 50% likely you'll fail and 50% likely you'll be able to achieve it. So for the audience listening, if you don't yet have a Masogi Challenge, go and learn a second language on Preply. Hashtag, no ad. Taking aside the long days and kind of like the entrepreneur journey, how do you spend your time outside of Preply? Because I think it's really important for founders to try and spend at least maybe one day a week, which I try and do every Saturday, where you're just basically completely disconnected from work. ### Balance **Kirill Bigai** [35:44] Yes, I completely agree with that. Again, it was not always like that. You know, I remember our days in Boston. You know, we were working on the weekend every single time. And, but I think, you know, as the journey progressed, I do remember in some period of time, I actually felt that, yeah, it was a lot of accumulation of stress over the time, and there was not enough breaks and not enough, you know, time to think about yourself and your body. And actually, at that time, I started focusing on this more. And today, I like to think about myself as a professional athlete. So to perform, you have to recover,right? And recovery is extremely important to perform at your best. And that's why I try to, you know, design my week when I have time to have a deep work. Usually, it's in the mornings. So, you know, I can focus on things that I need to progress on, either it's, you know, hiring new leaders or, you know, diving deep in some area of the product or understanding better our, you know, motion on the B2B side, which is a new direction for the business. And then afternoon, I have my, you know, all my meetings probably until, you know, 8:00 p.m. or something. And then I try to disconnect. And I think a few things that are extremely important are to have a good sleep. Somehow, somehow I always like to sleep well. Like, you know, if I sleep less than seven hours, I don't feel quite myself. And of course, it happens from time to time, but these days, I really try to anchor myself on eight hours and sleep well, and it's the best recovery. I do take my weekends seriously. I try to disconnect and, you know, not work on the weekends. And then during the week, I have, you know, one of the evenings, like on Wednesday, I would try to, you know, do some sport and try to recover afterwards. ### Ukraine **Olek** [37:51] I think one of the maybe difficult weeks you guys may have faced was you have an amazing team still in Ukraine. And obviously, the last few years have been, you know, pretty difficult and heartbreaking for so many people. What do you think is the greatest lesson you have learned about yourself in the last few years when your company is so focused on looking after your team now? **Kirill Bigai** [38:16] Well, first of all, we are extremely grateful to Ukrainians, to the Ukrainian team, but also, you know, all the Ukrainians and Ukrainian warriors that defend Ukraine. It's unfortunate what's happening, and this war is not fair. But we are really grateful to those people who defend the country. When it comes to, again, our team, I think they are very inspirational for the whole, for the rest of the organization. They have been extremely, extremely committed to our mission, extremely resilient. And it's very difficult to imagine what they're going through,right? Becauseright now, you know, often you don't have electricity, you don't have, you don't have heat in your apartments, and it's minus 15 in Ukraine, you know, in some months. So it can be even minus 20 sometimes. I remember when it was minus 30. But yeah, it can be extremely hot, especially in winter, and the bombing is constant. So, you know, often you would have a call with a Ukrainian teammate, and they just tell you that they have to go underground because there isn't coming rocket. So they go underground, and they continue to work from underground. So it's quite incredible. And, you know, I think if anything, it made Preply so much stronger. When the war started to unpack in 2022, we had 150 people in Kyiv. And I think in the first weeks of war, there was a real threat to Kyiv and that it can be captured. And again, thanks to, you know, all the warriors, all the soldiers, it never happened. But it was a real risk. And there were a few things that I think we learned from. So first of all, our policy, contingency policy before the war started was to support financially, you know, employees and allow them, you know, to leave and etc., and support with information. But basically, all the transportation and finding accommodation, it was basically on teammates. And in the first days of war, when we saw what's happening, we actually decided to take responsibility. And, you know, the main idea of this contingency plan is that, you know, if the company takes responsibility and find, you know, the transportation means and that transportation means is rocketed, it's quite a big moral choice and a big moral kind of burden. And it's difficult to be responsible for finding transportation and finding theright route. But we basically decided to take this responsibility, and we started, we put a policy of having a direct contact with every Preplyer 24/7. So we created a team inside Preply that kept in touch with every single employee. And we were looking for any possible transportation means for them to leave Kyiv. It's been quite crazy, to be honest, because there was no gas in the city, like no gas. So you may have a vehicle, but there's just no gas,right? And there was no buses, you know, everyone left Kyiv, and trains were not working on a consistent basis. They started to improve it, you know, day by day. But then when you go to the train station, you don't have a seat. It's just an impossibly big crowd trying to get into the train. So finding the transportation means was the biggest challenge. And we basically were able to find different buses that were coming from the western part of Ukraine to Kyiv to pick up people. And, you know, for every Preplyer, we tried to find this means. And then when they were in a safer zone on the western part of Ukraine, we made sure that they know where they are going, that they have accommodation. We rented out many different hotels, many different apartments for them. We also supported their evacuation if they wanted, you know, outside of Ukraine, all the legal support. We provided mental support. We provided financial support. And a lot of people, you know, some people came to Ukraine, sorry, to Ukraine, to Barcelona, where we have a large hub. And some moved to, you know, their families and friends that they had abroad. But yeah, I think taking responsibility, it was one of the lessons that, you know, it's important to take responsibility when it has to happen. I think another lesson was a lesson of resilience and a lesson of basic collaboration and support to each other. In these early days, as I mentioned, we built a team that was supporting 24/7. We had to keep running the business. We had to, you know, communicate proactively. And also, we had to deal with, you know, personal issues as well. You know, I was evacuating my family from Kyiv, and other people were thinking about their family as well. And I think during that time, it was an incredible feeling of unity when all the international employees were gathered together to basically support, you know, all the, everything that we were doing to help Ukrainians, but also to keep running the business. And it was an incredible feeling of unity, and it was also a very incredible feeling of resilience. And I think, you know, the key lessons was take responsibility. I think it became, we became, as a company, more united and more resilient. Those were kind of three things that I would highlight during that experience. ### Advice **Olek** [44:23] Wow. I mean, that's a lot. And I'm getting, as you explain it, I'm getting the impression it also reflects on what your culture is like, a loving, caring community that all supports each other,right? And I think there are so many different things the founders can learn from this episode, from building a tech company, going from resilience, going from, you know, not speaking a language in a new city where you launch. And when we think about the closing question for all of our episodes, we try and think of one question that nobody's ever asked. But I think this question really reflects exactly what we've been speaking about. And so to finish off, for the founders listening, a founder might have not achieved what they had wanted to achieve as of yet. What's the biggest mistake you've made in the Preply journey that you coach other founders to avoid? **Kirill Bigai** [45:20] My biggest learning is that the company evolves, of course, because, you know, the way you're building the product for customers and the way you talk about this product to the world. But every time what we saw as a kind of, you know, a next stage of growth for Preply, this stage was coming with people who we were hiring. So finding those unique people who can get you to the next level, who would have incredible high standards for themselves and for the company, who would be, you know, ambitious and resilient, who would be, you know, extremely disciplined in their execution, really, you know, moving fast and being able to dive deep and connect, you know, the insights to the strategy. That's what you're looking for. So, and that's kind of reflect the culture that we are trying to build. So I think focusing on your culture was the most important element that we've probably done. And our culture, we have 10 principles, but it's grouped in three. It's ambition, boldness, and collaboration. And I believe that's what helped us through many years. So that would be probably, you know, the most important piece. The second most important piece is to, again, really, based on this culture, really try to find those executives that will help you to get to the next level. So in the end, you know, the company are built by amazing people, and amazing people are united by amazing culture. And finding something that unites it is our principles. ### Outro **Olek** [46:51] And I think the most important thing is to have great fun as well. It's going to be a long journey, but to have great fun. **Kirill Bigai** [46:58] Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm having fun. I'm having fun for sure. It's been an incredible journey, and it's just the beginning. You know, I think that a lot of my friends are asking, you know, how do you feel about becoming a unicorn? And to be honest, the answer is that it was never an end goal. You know, we really, from the very beginning, we want to build a global business, and we wanted to build something that would shape how people learn in the future and build that legendary learning brand. So yeah, we are very excited, very lucky where we are now, and it's just the beginning for us. **Olek** [47:31] Amazing. Well, Kirill, thank you so much for coming on the show. This has been awesome fun. **Kirill Bigai** [47:35] Thank you. Thank you so much, Oli. And thank you for having me. It's been a very nice chat. --- This library is powered by PodHood (https://podhood.com), the podcast website platform.